i mean, there was so much talk of mohammad al baredy, if he would have been president? >> we really don't know what the real answer to this is. we do know that the liberals split their votes. they split their vote in the first round of the elections. and you ended up with this odd outcome. you ended up in the second round, the ultimate round, with a man from the mubarak years against the muslim brotherhood. so i think it was really the liberals, the constitutionalists, the secularists who really divided their own ranks and made their own life very difficult. >> it seems like the whole region in north africa, the middle east is the in turmoil right now. is this still the arab spring we're talking about or have we moved on to something totally different? >> well, i think, you know me, wolf, i am true blue to this arab spring. i believe in this democratic wave. it's very difficult. i think we're witnessing in many ways, and it's not really spin that i say here. we're witnessing the delayed consequences of decades of dictatorship, decades of dictatorsh dictatorship. six dec